From Corn to Cattle: How One Nebraska Farmer Switched to Grass-Fed Beef on Cover Crops

0:00 Hey everybody, welcome to the Green Cover podcast where we have really interesting conversations with some of the top farmers and ranchers in the regenerative agriculture movement. Join us as we learn together how to regenerate God's creation for future generations. Here in our part of Nebraska and much of the area that we work with, corn is king and everybody plants every acre that they can and design much of their systems around planting corn. But our guest today is kind of bucking that trend a little bit, is doing some really innovative and interesting and creative things. So our guest today is our friend Kip Henrix. Kip farms right here in South Central Nebraska. We're only like 30 miles from the Green Cover headquarters, and you're doing some really interesting things to create income streams that aren't just about planting corn. So I'm looking forward to having this conversation with you, Kip. So welcome to the podcast.

0:54 Thanks for having me, Keith. Yeah, absolutely. Start out Kip by just sharing with us your background, your past farming experiences, some of how you've kind of gotten to where you're at here. Okay. So in about 1991, graduated from Hastings College. I decided I was going to come back and farm. My brother and my dad had conventionally farmed well since 1955 is when my dad started. Came back to the farm and just did it the conventional way. Corn, soybeans, once in a while we had a little bit of wheat or something like that. Basically did that and grew the operation till about 2021 is when I kind of made that shift away from doing the conventional and just the corn soybean rotation. That's when I got out of that.

1:49 And you're mostly irrigated here. Is that right? I was 95% of our ground is irrigated. Pivot irrigated. Yep. So good ground, good growing potential. And everybody around here is growing corn beans mostly. Correct. Yep. High yield potential, you know, good silt loam soils. I mean, it's hard to find. It's hard to mess up unless you know, I mean, mother nature can. You can't. Yes. Things like that. Yep.

2:18 So did you get a degree in agronomy or what? What did you study in college? Nope. Actually, I was going to go on to be either a biology teacher or a history teacher and coach basketball. Okay. Yep. That was kind of what I thought and I kind of got into the student teaching. I realized maybe I better think of something different. But I always enjoyed the farm, always enjoyed cattle, different things like that. I just didn't really know if it was really a pathway for me. Sure. Sure.

2:46 So do you look back on any of those biology classes that you had and go, 'Man, I wish I'd have paid more attention because, you know, essentially your farm is a biology classroom now.' I wish, maybe not necessarily that, but I always have looked back and wish that I would have looked, you know, what I had a kind of a passion for or what I liked instead of maybe thinking, well, this is what I ought to do. Because I there's a lot of things. I went to Cloud County also. So I mean, they did have an, you know, like a grassland management. I remember I mean because I just remember seeing those things. Kind of wish I would have maybe dove into that, but you know, it is what it is. So yeah. Yeah.

3:28 You know, there's a lot of things I look back on and think, God, I wish I'd have paid more attention to that. Oh yeah. But here we are and learning opportunities abound. And I know that you go to a lot of things and we'll talk a little bit more later about, you know, where you go for your learning and stuff. So you came back farm conventionally you said in

3:48 2021 things kind of started to change. So what happened that started you down this regenerative path? Well the main thing was in fall of 2020 things were trending that we may not be able to have a lot of activity going on and we educate our kids at home and they played homeschool basketball. Along with our kids we know you from that as well. And so it was looking like that maybe things weren't going to go as planned that year. So I'm like, 'Okay, this will be a long fall and winter if these kids are cooped up and don't have a little something they can look forward to.' Again, I always enjoyed cattle and I thought, you know, why not go buy 30 or 40 head of mama cows that are going to calve early. We'll put them out on the stalks and if we can't go play basketball, we'll have that just something different that a learning opportunity for them also.

4:43 So went and bought the cows and I'm like, okay, how you know what if I want to keep them during the summer? Is there some cover crops I can graze? Went on YouTube and I don't believe in coincidences. I just, you know, I think things always happen for a reason and all I really put in is grazing cover crops and Gabe Brown's name came up and he was doing a conference and I started watching that and I couldn't stop. You know, it'd be a lot of nights 2 3 in the morning I'd still feel fresh and I just could not, I just couldn't believe that I'd never heard of this or this was even possible. And so that's really how I got going down that path. And I just I couldn't get it out. I couldn't get enough of it. So YouTube University. Yes. Pretty much. Professor Brown pretty much. Yes. Yeah. And so many people, you know what a great resource that is because it's free and there's just such great resources out there. So it's a mistake eliminator. Yeah. I mean it can save you a lot of time. I mean, you're thinking, well, this would work. Well, there's a lot of people out saying, well, it kind of works. You might want to go be careful of this. Exactly. Be careful of that.

5:59 So, you started with 30 or 40 cows. Yeah. And did you just enjoy working with them or did you see the profit potential in going down that path right away? I just enjoyed working with them. The profit potential that I saw in it initially before I started doing all the reading and all that. So, it was like they didn't cost me much in the fall. I had corn stalks to graze as long as they had there wasn't any snow on there. And if they had a live calf, which I was fortunate we had a really kind of mild stretch when they calve. Well, if I wanted to, I could have sold the cows for what I gave for them and had the calf. So, yeah. I mean, I could definitely see where, gosh, maybe I should do this every fall. You know, I wasn't thinking so much down the line, but I could see that.

6:47 But you started and didn't really have any perennial pastures, right? You were just ready to stock. Zero had nothing. No. So then if you wanted to keep them, that's when you said, 'We're going to have to plant some cover crops and take ground out of production.' Correct. To grow forages for them. So correct. What was your first foray down that path? Well, I just took about 30 acres right here where I live because I had water and all that close and then didn't plant corn or anything like that. I went with a oats pea mix. Maybe some veetch was in there. Planted it. I did have to hay them because I didn't have anything and when they got off the stalks I didn't have to have anything, you know, to feed them until that was ready. And then I just

7:33 Put up electric fencing. They were broke. So I wasn't, you know, I'm a little nervous, but not too bad. And I did rotational graze them. I just turned them out. And just kind of ran them all summer on that. And when I got a little bit low, then I bought a little hay or whatever. But in the meantime, I was doing all this reading and learning different things. And I just in my brain, I kept going, well, next year I'm going to have 80 acres.

8:04 And so you started with the 30 or 40 and what how many head are you running now?

8:10 So I started with those 30 or 40 and then two years after that I bought another 70 heifers and then right at the moment I actually just brought them up. I'll have out about 120 cows right at the moment. All on zero native pastures. I don't have any at this point. No, it's at this point where we live, they'll come over here. I'm going to try to keep them off it till June, but you know, it's cool season grass, but it's a mix that we got from you guys. Other than that, it's going to be just cover crops.

8:49 Yeah, buying 70 heifers two years ago to what they're worth now. I mean, you're like a Warren Buffett type investor. Yeah, I am. I mean, it was good timing on that part. Nothing that I did but just you'd hate to go out and have to buy 70 right now. We actually talked about it, you know, okay, how can we get enough mouths for our forage? That's kind of one of the little issues. It's not a bad problem, you know, because I don't grow any corn or soybeans. I mean, how do we get enough mouths to take care of it? And I can't, you know, pencil in a $3,400, $3,500 heifer and do that now. So we're taking a little different approach, building our own genetics to how we're going to run our cattle.

9:32 So tell me a little bit more about that. How are you, you know, what genetics did you start with and then what are you looking for selecting if you bring in outside genetics? What are you looking at for your bulls?

9:42 So just the cows we bought were out of Carne, Nebraska. They were just some broken mouth cows and some just older cows I think people pieced together and they really, you know, I didn't really know what to look for in a grass cow. Ice Cattle Company, you know, down at Guide Rock, knew them well and started looking at their program of how they run things and you know they just do a really good job and talk a little bit about how they do run things and what are they doing to try to develop grass-fed genetics.

10:17 Well, for the most part, you know, they're not hampering their cattle at all. They're not feeding them hay. They're not putting the extra inputs. They're not abusing them. But I mean, they're making the cow has to make the living, not the person. And so as they graze them, they have, you know, run them on their perennial pastures and cover crops, but it's more of the type of cattle like not the big 1,800, 1,900 lb cow. You know, they're looking for more moderate, 1,100, 1,200 pound cow, big gut capacity, calves on their own, you don't have to assist, you know, good udders, all those different, you know, good all those different types of things that make the cow work for you and you not work for the cow that they can then forage themselves and then, you know, very little inputs if you do it that way. And that's what I'm looking at almost the way cattle were supposed to.

11:13 I read a deal the other day where the guy said, you know, this was on ranching for profit. He said, you know, when cattle industry first start that you had, they were talking about overhead. He said you had good horses and good cowboys. They went out and rounded up all the cows and then they walked them to their market, you know, and they ate along the way and you had a chuck wagon and that's how they did it. That's how they raised them. You know, the ones that live could live, but so you know, survival of the fittest.

11:43 So I got it through Ice Cattle Company. My first couple bulls. Getting the bulls from them and some heifers. Bought about 20 heifers from them. Had really good luck with them. And then I know they went through, they have a lot of—they have Pharaoh genetics in their deal. So I ended up buying a couple Pharaoh bulls, red Angus bulls. And so that's kind of how I'm building my own herd that way.

12:05 And I think it's really important for anybody that wants to go down this path that they understand that, you know, genetics are just like corn genetics, you got to have the right genetics for your environment. You know, if you're trying to do grass-fed, grass-finished animals, it's different genetics than feed lot cow. It's way different. And it's and you know, again, this is just as I'm learning and going along, you know, a grass-efficient animal. I mean, she fills up, she gets her room and going, you know, and just how she just handles herself and how efficient she is is way different than cows that, you know, their bulls were made to put calves in for a feed lot. I mean, they're real tall and, you know, they're just they're just a different—they're a cow, but they are just different genetically that just aren't efficient for what we want to do.

12:56 Bred for a different environment, for sure. Yeah. So as you expanded your herd, you started building genetics, you started seeing the need for more and more forage because you're obviously seeing the profit potential, correct, in this system. So at what point did you start thinking about, hey, I need to start planting some perennials? You because one of the things that you're doing that is just so different than anybody around here. You're taking this prime black, you know, good ground, irrigated ground, and you're saying, I think I can make just as much, if not more money planting perennial grasses and forbs on this than growing corn, right?

13:37 So really, you know, going to your conferences and Nexus and and just talking with other people and listening to all the different things out there. I mean, number one, it's all about soil health. Okay, that's sometimes I get lost thinking it's about the cattle or it's about the forage, all that, but it's really about soil health. Well, the thing that I've learned through everybody is, you know, you got to have diversity. Plants, the plants and what's there, you got to have diversity because you got a diverse soil underneath there and all the living organisms under that's diverse.

14:15 What's the best way to have a living root in the ground all the time? Well, I mean it's a perennial. I mean that there's no other way around it. So I just started thinking, okay, okay, now all the we know that all the nutrients we need and mean you've talked about this, you know, are in the ground already, but we don't have the biology to get those out. So in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, so we need a diverse perennial system because it's.

14:43 Going to be capturing sunlight all the time. And if it's diverse, different plants are going to be capturing it. It's going to feed the soil better. It's going to be covered because through grazing management and I don't have to put any nutrients on it because if I can get the soil biology going, then how could that not be profitable? You know, I mean it goes with other things about overhead and different things like that, but how, you know, so I'm just thinking to myself that's by far the best system.

15:17 Your inputs really are seed, little irrigation, water, and labor. That pretty much. And that's kind of what I'm leaning at. And I think you would probably agree that if the weather stays dry like they say for a few more years, our ability to irrigate probably going to be limited as far as what they tell you you can have. So kind of looking forward, I have that perennial system in there and I got a healthy thing going. Maybe I don't need to irrigate. I would like to. Or you could cut way back and still be fine. Yeah, the irrigation is kind of my card of not having to restock my genetics that I'm building. You know, other people they have to restock, where I'm thinking, why I have it.

16:15 Do you know yet how much less water you're using to grow that perennial crop all year round versus growing just a seasonal crop of corn or beans? Have you been in it long enough? I haven't been in it long enough, but I would say like just learning from cover crops, it's less than half. Way less than half. So I'm assuming when I get the perennials established and I mean I'm not talking like the first couple years because I'm going to stress them so they have to have roots, but yes I'm not going to stress them to kill them. But I'm going to say after a couple three or four years that it will be significantly less.

16:56 And that's, you know, as the aquifers shrink, as water becomes more and more important and valuable, these are all things, especially you know, we've got a lot of customers out on the western edge of the Ogallala aquifer. These are some things they really need to be considering because growing irrigated corn in western Kansas, that's just not going to last forever. No, and the water's not going to last forever, and there's just so many other options that we can look at that are more enjoyable too.

17:29 I know that because we've been working with you throughout this process and some of the things that you did to establish these perennials on irrigated crop ground was pretty interesting because you were establishing some of this while you were still growing a corn crop. Tell us a little bit more about that. So I did get a lot of this from Dale Strickler, some advice from Dale how to do that. So what I ended up doing is I planted my corn in 30-inch rows and I planted my corn east and west. The reason being I planted it east and west is for extra sunlight getting into the canopy. And you planted a little lower population too, much lower. And that's one thing I'll tell you too, so then I planted my eastern gamma grass in 30-inch rows also north and south.

18:24 Had really good luck getting both established. I was very happy getting the eastern gamagrass to grow. The one thing that I would have done different that would have made it a little bit more profitable is I planted too thin a corn crop. I only planted about 17 or 18,000 and I had a really good stand but the yield wasn't quite there. It was probably a little bit better than break even and help pay for a little bit of stuff.

18:59 Now one thing that if I ever had to do it again and it's one thing you guys have been talking about, I would plant my corn in 60 inch rows and then I would drill my gamagrass to have that big gap because what I found out is wherever I had like a turn row or something like that where the corn wasn't at, I was having gamagrass by September 1st that was close to a foot and a half, two foot tall and real vibrant. I mean, I was thinking to myself, if that just had extra sunlight all it was. So 60 inch rows with that and then you could have a higher population, then I think your yield would be very good. I think a guy could get 150, 180 bushel corn out of it. You could make some profit.

19:51 Because the big kicker is if you have to take an entire year to establish your perennials, that's really difficult financially to swing it. It is because the seed is expensive. There's no doubt about it. And not having any production for a whole year is expensive too. It is. So Dale has a lot of other ways. I mean he even has another one where you plant tray in the fall and your gamagrass in May, silo your tray off, take it as a hay crop, then plant a corn crop. So there's ways to do it. It's just, you know, are you willing to do it?

20:38 And for folks who aren't necessarily familiar with eastern gamagrass, it's an ancient type of grass. It's kind of in that corn family. It's a warm season C4, extremely productive, extremely palatable grass, and it will tolerate many of the same herbicides as corn. So that's why you can plant them both together and still have some weed control with your corn while you're establishing the gamagrass. And so that's why it's a great system. That's why it works. That's why it gives you a chance for it to work.

21:10 And so you did that to establish the gamagrass, which can be a difficult one to establish. And did you come in later and add the diversity, the forbs and the legumes and things like that? Well, that will probably be either this spring or later on just to see how because this was just very recent. You did the gamagrass. Yep. And you did a similar thing with switchgrass too, right? Yes. I did switchgrass and I did big bluestem with it. Basically did the same thing. It just was a little bit of a different herbicide. I used atrazine instead of what I used on the other one, but it was where I used that herbicide it was a little bit more powerful. The gamagrass is more tolerant a little bit more. So yeah, so the same thing, same situation.

22:03 So you know I think that the point that people need to understand is that you don't have to give up an entire year of production because especially with these warm season grasses like these, you don't get a lot of grazing that first year. It's

22:16 Almost a lost year. And so this way you are still harvesting a crop. You're getting that established. You can add the diversity later. And so I love that creative type thinking and again part of it is you just knowing who to go to, you know, reading Dale's books, having Dale come in and help you, you know, get advice. You don't have to do it on your own.

22:39 And that's just it. And because Dale's done it several times himself and he's advised several people. So his eyes have been on lots of acres doing this when my eyes have never been on any. So I'm just like, okay, I'll, you know, I trust what you're saying. This is how we're going to go about doing it.

22:54 So those fields with the gamma grass and then the switch grass and the big blue stem, those will be kind of your base warm season grass pastures. Correct. But you've also established some cool season grass pastures as well. Correct. Tell us a little bit about that.

23:10 So really in that situation, that's where we live here at the home place. I strictly used cover crops as a grazing and did amp grazing where I'd give them, you know, a couple acres a day or whatever, move them once a day, sometimes twice a day. So this had not had a crop on it for almost three years. I did not grow a crop. So I was pretty confident that the soil was ready to go ahead and get over to a permanent type grass deal.

23:44 So when I took the cattle off in August and moved them to another cover crop, I just came in and no tilled the cool season mix that we had the grass and the forbs and the alfalfa and the clover and all that right into it. Like I said, I had really good stand establishment with it. Grasshoppers did get a little bit of it, but right now I'm watering it and you know in the past 10 days even though it's been warm, it's really starting to grow.

24:16 So I'm I like to keep the cattle off it as long as possible just to let it get good roots and get established well. But then I'll come in and I'll graze it quick or I'll bring some sheep in and I'll, you know, I may not take it all, but I'll just graze it real quick.

24:33 And I think the strategy that you took is important for people to understand and realize. You can't just take a system that's been conventionally farmed for years and immediately go to those perennials because perennials are expensive to establish. They're more difficult to establish. And so you use the cheaper cover crops where you can get quick growth, you can get quick biology to build the soil back up, add some carbon, add organic matter, add the biology. And then you said you did that for two or three years, probably. Right.

25:08 And then one thing I should add is I always had it treated with mycorrhizae. And you know I again from none of this is on that I know. I just learning from people say that's the absolute key. If you're going to do this, so you're so it's in there for all the plants can work together. And I do see it. I mean, even I'm learning, but I do see how that makes a big difference. So it was in there, but when we got going.

25:35 So how are you all the way switched over to grazing system or do you are you still growing some row crop? I'm growing no row crop this, my first year. I will grow no row crop. I'm going to have about 80 acres of oat pea mix that I'm going to swath and bale just so I have, I got to build a little bit of a hay reserve because I really don't have any. But on those acres, my plan is to try to convert at least between.

30:13 That's how it pencils out. You're diversifying your risk. Now, do you run them together? I have not yet. Okay. I have not yet. My plan is because they also have different parasites that bother sheep don't bother cattle. So the cattle can eat those parasites, get rid of them, and vice versa. My plan this year is it'll be later on the summer is that I'll probably run the cattle through quickly and let the sheep come in behind them or vice versa depending on what I have for what the forage looks like, you know, the weeds or whatever. If I want them to come in and clean them out first, I'll let them get those. So, yeah. But as far as running them as a flurry or whatever, no. But Sunday could be.

30:59 So tell me a little bit about how, you know, because you're growing animals now instead of crops. Are you just marketing these through traditional channels? Do you have, you know, some specialty type markets developed? Is that something that you think could be developed or how are you marketing your crop of animals?

31:19 Well, my wife and I, Tanya, talk about this, been talking about it a lot the last few months is right at the moment it's just commodity. Yeah. That's kind of where I'm at. There are a lot of opportunities I believe out there for grass finish products. I did sell, I think they were five animals last year to friends and family. And one thing I learned grass finish, yes. And all the way through from being born all the way through no grain. Is that that isn't as easy as it sounds to get the finish on them. Yeah. Now, everybody has said the hamburger and the roast all were really good. My steaks are just a little bit tough. Well, I look back at the forage that they were eating. It wasn't the last 60, 70 days. It wasn't the annual rye grass that I probably need, and the high sugar. Exactly. So there's a learning curve with that. The flavor, I mean the flavor and knowing that these animals have not been wormed, I don't use insecticides, all that I think that meant a lot to these people, really, you know, that was important to them. So I mean a tough, you know, I'm not saying shoe leather tough, I'm just saying just not as tender as they thought, not USDA prime. And you know the first one I had, I knew and I called them right away I said, 'Dell, your steaks are tough. This is, you know, a little tougher than wine.' But everything else was really good. What I'm learning now is the sheep are a little bit different. This is what I'm trying to learn is sheep are a little bit different that you don't want to get them over fat because they put more of the fat on the outside the carcass instead of like the marbling type deal.

33:11 So you do want them a nice growth, but you know, you can harvest those at about 80 to 90 pounds, and it's not quite as, let's just say, fickle as maybe a beef animal is. So our goal is to get some maybe harvested this fall and really maybe push that market locally. We're going to try it locally. We've had some different ideas of just having somebody come over and cook some lamb and invite people to come just try it. So just different things like that were really kicking around. And the one thing that I didn't know is that wool sheep are different than hair sheep. I have hair sheep. Yes. And so wool sheep with that wool I can't, I don't know the right word for or the what the word is that they produce but it's a chemical that gives

34:05 Which makes the meat taste a little more gamey and much gamey. So the hair sheep are actually less gamey. They don't have that at all. They don't even have that. So you know people that say well I've tried it. You know what have I mean my deal is what have you tried? What type?

34:25 Yeah, exactly, because I'll be honest, I have not tried any of our own yet. But I'm going to and I'm anxious to see what it's like. A lot of good health benefits and I think a lot of it is knowing how to cook it and prepare it. Yeah, just like we're talking about now, education. You don't know what you don't know. Educate that consumer. So yeah, that's exciting to see because now you're getting the production system kind of dialed in. Now the marketing will come.

34:52 Yes, that's what we're hoping. Yeah. And we, you know, we will expand that or keep it as small as, you know, as we have kids that may consider want to come back. And I just see a lot of opportunity in that field. But if you're only two people, you can only do so much.

35:10 Well, yes. And you know, oftentimes to be very successful, you need to be really good at production and really good at marketing. And oftentimes that's not inside the same person. No. And so if you're a good producer, find some good marketers to come on. Or if you're a good marketer, team up with some good producers. And so I see a lot of upside potential for you.

35:30 Yeah, in that, especially knowing some of your family members who really have some propensity towards that. So yeah. So I mean, I think there's just a big opportunity there.

35:44 You mentioned earlier a little bit about, you know, people from the outside looking in and going, why doesn't he have a tractor? Why doesn't he have this? How has what you've been doing, how has it been socially accepted? Because we talked to a lot of people who it's like, you know, I'm doing these regenerative practices, but man, I know they're talking about me at the coffee shop or I know my neighbors are going, what is these? How has it been for you?

36:11 I would say it's very similar to that. You know, me, I mean, my skin's pretty tough, so it doesn't bother me. That part doesn't bother me. I've got a real good friend Steve Henrix that does a lot of cover crops and so that's been really helpful that him and I can visit and talk about different things, have a little therapy group. Exactly. You know, so this morning my phone, you know, he's watering some rye and he went out there and here's all these earthworms and he's like, he's just excited. You know, his deal was like, 'Oh, good. I'm gonna have worm poop.' Yeah. You know, he's excited. So that part of it's nice.

36:47 I will say this, even though I know they think the wheels have come off at times when I started it, I do get questions. Yeah. And people, you know, people ask and especially with the sheep. I mean, I don't know how many times I've almost seen an accident on this gravel road. People have slowed way down to look at them and someone's coming behind them. Yeah. Because they're just you just don't see them. Yeah, you don't see them. You still see a couple hundred head of sheep out there doing that. So I get questions and that's the whole thing, you know, part of this whole journey for me too is to educate people and to know that we were blessed with a tremendous resource here and it's our responsibility to take care of it the way, you know, the Lord.

37:40 Asked us to take care of it. And we can do it in such a way that you know that we can be profitable. Yeah, we can be healthy and everybody else can be too. Yeah. But I think with the Bobby Kennedy and his push for make America healthy again, yeah, I think that people are going to start listening to that message of oh you mean there are differences in you know this product versus it. Yeah, there are differences. It matters how it was grown.

38:09 Oh I think I definitely think it, you know, like nutrient density type talk. I mean, you know it and I know it and the people in this movement knows it, but not a lot of people understand really what that means. I think in the next, you know, three, four years, that's going to be kind of a buzzword. Yeah. That would be my prediction and people are going to start looking for those type and I think that's where you're going to have tremendous marketing opportunity because of what you're doing and how you're doing it. I think you're positioned well for the future.

38:42 Well, I hope so. And it's and I have to admit I do like the challenge, too. Yeah. I mean, I do. I just getting up in the morning and doing what I'm doing now is just it's just a whole different ball game for mentally. Yeah, yeah. Well, you're not thinking about what you have to go kill today. Not at all. Not at all.

39:02 You know, I saw when I was planting planting them oats and peas the other day and it was in an old cover crop stand that had been grazed, but it was a little raggedy. You know, I saw a covia quail, actually saw three or four hens and a rooster pheasant and a couple a pair of those ground owls, you know, that live in those burrows. Whole bunch. Yeah. Oh, I got a picture of it somewhere. And you know, several cottontails and field mice everywhere. And I'm like I look across at that disc field and I'm like I got more life, you know, right here than yeah. And it felt good. I'm not going I mean I just I just love seeing that stuff.

39:42 Yeah, that's great. That's great. So, you know, as we kind of wrap up here, quite a journey really because you've only been on this journey for five years now. Five years. That's the first acceleration pretty good there. So, what's next? Where do you see yourself going next?

40:01 Uh just continuing more of the same or you know are you looking to add additional animal species or you know the marketing obviously would be a next step but where do you see yourself going in the next several years? Uh I really see the sheep expanding and trying to get that in you know a little bit more of that and selling more direct consumers and maybe more breeding stock. There's a pretty good market for the hair for the hair sheep. The cattle kind of, you know, I'm going to kind of see how this market goes. I mean, it's fantastic now, but kind of just take our time building that herd.

40:40 One thing that I have been reading a lot about and I don't know I mean it would take a little bit more labor and it again depends on whether kids want to come back and help or not but I really think broiler chickens, not just locally but on a kind of a pretty good scale could really be a game changer for someone that really wanted to get into that. So that's kind of where I see things going. I would really like to do that. But run a lot of chickens on a pivot. Oh my, just a pivot corner. Yeah. And that's one thing that I'd like again I'd like to try I might try to ask a neighbor or whatever, but that you know.

41:19 I see these dryland corners and I'm looking at, I'm like, gee, if you had a hundred U's, you could run a hundred U's on a pivot corner and walk them along the edge into the other pivot corner. And I did some figuring where I think you could, you know, you can make on 14 acres. I think you can make $22,000, $23,000 having a hundred U's. And anyway, a lot of these guys are probably happy if they break even on a pivot corner.

41:44 Well, exactly. And then this was profit. I mean, you can buy a good U for less than you can buy a bag of corn, you know. It's crazy. Yeah. $250 for a really good U, yeah. $300 some for a bag of seed corn. Yeah. Well, great opportunities there.

42:03 So, kind of the last thing here, I like to just ask people, what advice would you have? You know, somebody listening to this, watching this, and they go, I kind of would like to start down that path myself. Where's a good place for them to start? What would your advice be for someone just wanting to start down this road?

42:23 If there's something that you want to do and you're passionate about it, but you don't know a lot about it, the resources are there to just start looking and start asking. You got, I mean, Green Cover, you and Brian, you guys know a lot of people that can get them. I mean, you may not know exactly, but you know the people that do know. Go to those people and ask and figure out a game plan and run it by somebody that would do that. And then don't be afraid to go do it.

42:54 I mean, I know a lot of people say, looking back, I probably went accelerated maybe a little faster than most people, but I'm okay with that. My personality is okay with that. But you started on 30 or 40 acres, correct? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I just, you know, from there went fast. You didn't bet the farm in year one. Right. Right.

43:13 But then educate yourself on it and go for it and realize this is what I find a lot with people that farm and then want to try something. Understand that not everything works perfect the first year or second year or whatever. But when you were conventional farming, nothing worked. Yeah. Exactly. So don't change your mindset thinking, well, okay, it didn't work, so I'm not going to do it, you're not going to try it. Well, look at your past and say to yourself, okay, how did I adjust or how did I make something work? Because, you know, you got to want to make it work, too.

43:54 Yeah. And so, that would be my advice. There are countless opportunities out there in this world. We just have to look through that, you know, look through a different lens and just say, just because you were told something doesn't mean, you know, one way is the only way. That's not the truth. Yeah. That's right. And I love it's kind of that pioneer spirit, you know, of our ancestors that, you know, came here and, you know, had to learn new things and not everything worked. And we need more of that, I think.

44:23 So, I do too. Thank you for your inspiring story. Thank you for your willingness to try new things and not be afraid. And thank you for sharing your story. You bet, Keith. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

44:34 My brother and I started Green Cover in 2009 because we understand what it's like to be a farmer starting out on the journey to improve soil health. We saw the power of plant and biological diversity on our own farm here in Nebraska. But we found that it was difficult to get the right cover crop seed mix. We also learned that there was a big learning curve in successfully implementing cover crops. That's why we built Green Cover so that farmers like you can access the highest quality cover crop seed put into the right diverse mixes along with the technical advice and the educational resources to help you successfully implement cover crops on your own operation. So contact us today and we'll help you with the right cover crop mix for your farm or ranch so you can regenerate your portion of God's creation for your future generations.