How a 2006 Meeting Launched the Regenerative Agriculture Movement in America

0:00 Hey everybody welcome to the Green Cover Podcast where we have really interesting conversations with some of the top regenerative farmers and experts to discuss how we can help people regenerate God's creation for future generations. Have you ever been part of an event that turned out to be a moment in time that changed the course of history? Well I have and so has our guest today. Join me as we talk to our friend Gabe Brown and learn more about the South American expert in the meeting that helped launch the regenerative agriculture movement here in the United States.

0:35 Our guest today is Mr. Gabe Brown. Gabe really needs no introduction to the regenerative world, but Gabe and I and my brother Brian we've known each other for years and years, way before Green Cover, way before understanding economics, really even before soil health and regenerative agriculture was a thing. We knew Gabe really well through No-Till on the Plains and the No-Till organizations, and so we've just been able to count him as a friend for many, many years.

1:05 So Gabe, when do you think that was, those first No-Till on the Plains events? Those had to be back in about 2003, 2004, around there? It's when the first one that several of us from Burley County went South and attended somewhere around there. Yeah, yeah, and so I was doing the website. Brian was on the board of No-Till on the Plains, and you and Jay were doing a lot of speaking, and so it's just a great group of people that we got to know. But there came a big moment in the history of No-Till on the Plains and the history of Gabe Brown and the history of Keith and Brian Burns, and that was in 2006.

1:48 No-Till on the Plains there in Salena, Kansas in 2006, because they had this crazy guy from Brazil named Adamir Caligari, and Adamir came over and he just literally blew us all away, and it really set the stage for much of what has happened since, and it really launched many, many things. So Gabe, share a little bit about what you remember from when Adamir was there in 2006.

2:13 Yeah, thank you Keith. I'll never forget the first breakout session Adamir did. Jay Fear was sitting behind me across the aisle, and Adamir made this statement: 'Cover crops are meant to be seeded in multispecies combinations.' And I will never forget, I turned around, looked at Jay, he looked at me, and the light bulb just went off. You know, I'm kind of slow, Jay's a lot faster, but I just remember thinking to myself, Gabe you idiot, of course that's the way native ecosystems function. Native ecosystems are very diverse—grasses, forbs, legumes, trees, shrubs—yet here we are in our monoculture type agricultural systems.

3:07 Of course it doesn't mimic nature and at that time Keith I had been probably at least 10 years into cover crops and I was seeding like three species in combination and people thought I was crazy but you get Adam here showing these graphs how you know you need seven or 10 species to really see the benefits and it just made so much sense to us that we knew right then and there that we need to explore this much more in depth.

3:42 Yeah and so you know when Adamir came over and so Adamir I think he worked for like a government research organization or something at the time there in Brazil and he was just showing pictures and telling stories of how these Brazilian farmers were using cover crops and they were getting this massive growth of biomass and the cattle were just doing incredible and the amount of nutrient cycling they were getting was just I mean it was almost unbelievable and granted you know Brazil has a different climate and everything but yeah like you guys it just resonated because we can look at what God created and just go well duh that's exactly what it was.

4:23 There was another thing Adamir said that day that have stuck in my mind ever since. He said that he had worked in over 60 different countries helping farmers implement cover crop strategy and I'm going okay he if he would have told me six countries I would have been sold but when he told me 60 I'm going yeah it'll work anywhere and it just made sense because it was following nature's principles it was following what God created and that's what the thing that I remember him saying is this will work everywhere it will work you know in areas get three inches of rain and areas that get 60 inches of rain.

5:07 And I think that we were kind of skeptical you know of oh yeah sure Adamir you know because Brazil you know they're more on the 60 inches of rain than the three inches of rain but what was so impactful is that you and Jay you went home and this was January of 2006 you guys went home back to Burley County and you guys said we're going to try this here and you set up some experiments and probably one of the driest years you guys have ever had in the Bismark area wasn't it?

5:37 2006 it was one of the driest up until three and four years ago but yes it was and I pulled out my notes knowing I was going to be on this podcast pulled out my notes on that we called it cover crop demonstration the Burley County Soil Conservation District of which Jay of course was the district conservationist I was one of the supervisors we had leased a plot of land it was approximately 10 or 12 acres just two miles south of my property so it's very close to my home farm and we decided to grow these cover crops in single species.

6:19 Monocultures and then we're going to mix them together. Now we seeded those cover crops in mid-May into very dry soil. We had burned down a pre-plant and then we went in there in the monocultures. I haven't wrote down we used radish, purple top turnips, hairy turnips, soybeans, cow peas, and lupin. Now obviously today we wouldn't grow a cover crop of those species unless we had a very specific reason. So those are the monocultures and then we grew another strip that was half rate. We mixed all those species together, those six species, and seeded it at half of a rate and then we seeded it at a full rate. We only had an inch of precipitation between seeding and remember we seeded into dry soil.

7:23 July 31st when the District staff clipped, they took clippings off the cover crop and it was so visual, the impact I'll never forget it. But here's what they found pounds production. This is above ground biomass: the radish 1,260 lbs, purple top turnips 1,513, hairy turnips 270 lbs, soybeans 1,496 lbs, cow peas 1,914 lbs, lupin 1,232. Then the half rate cocktail mix 4,785. So it is at least triple to almost quadruple the amount of the monocultures. Now the full rate mix was 4,350 pounds. And now since then of course we determined well, that full rate was just way too many seeds per square foot. But it was so striking and I'll never forget we held a number of tours there, including No-Till on the Plains, of course, brought a bus tour up that summer. But how can anyone walk out and look at that and not realize yeah, monocultures are a detriment to soil health and function.

8:47 Yeah, and you know, the pictures and those are very famous pictures. I've used them hundreds of times and I've seen them hundreds of times being used. They're even more staggering than the numbers because you look at it, it's just like, yeah, that thing just cooked into the ground in a monoculture. And then you know, you see the picture of the diverse mix and it's like, well, you know what, that's not the healthiest thing, but man, there's a lot of growth out there. I did not go on that trip. I did not go on that trip. I think we came up on the No-Till bus tour the next year or maybe an '08 or something. But Ray Ward was on that first trip and I've heard Ray speak many times and he shows those pictures and speaks of this often. And I just, I'll never forget him saying, because I was having a personal conversation with him, and he said, 'Keith, I got off that bus and we saw all these things burned up and we saw all this stuff growing.' And he just stands there, you know how Ray is, he's just shaking his head. 'It's the damnedest thing I'd ever seen. It's the damnedest thing I'd ever seen. I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it for myself.'

9:56 Myself and Ray, a great mind, great scientist, just trying to figure out where did that moisture come from, where did that moisture come from to grow those plants because obviously it wasn't falling from the sky. I think by July 30th you'd had less than three inches for that whole year if I remember right.

10:19 Yeah, we had and so just over an inch from when we seeded it until July 31st. Yeah, so gosh, I guess Adamir was right. Yeah, it will work anywhere. The great thing about that is we were able to get a lot of farmers, ranchers, and scientists on those spots and Chris Nicholls explained it best when she talked about it. To her it made perfect sense. She said, well of course, it's the mycorrhizal fungi that are connecting those different root sites, rooting depths, sizes, shapes, bringing all the moisture together.

10:59 What you have is a more collaborative symbiotic relationship amongst plants once you allow these natural principles to take place. And then also since then of course we begin to understand that the amount of leaf area, size, shape, different heights of leaves, canopies will actually help to circulate the moisture, CO2, etc. to help the plants thrive. Right, so what one plant is transpiring, the next plant can actually pull in and yeah, it's it's almost like it was a system that was created to be efficient when you get out of the way and you let it do that.

11:50 So you guys did that in 2006 and Brian and I back here in Nebraska, we're a little bit slower. We talked about it. Guys, we just, you know, because that was so exciting to see those pictures and so exciting to think about what those possibilities were. So in 2008 we rode a little Sarah Grant, got a little bit of money. In fact, I'm here in St. Louis because now I'm on the executive Council for SARE. That's what I'm doing here at this, so it's kind of come full circle. But we got like five or six thousand dollars and we bought all these moisture sensors because farmers were kind of skeptical and say, like, well yeah, that works for Gabe and Jay but they're great farmers. You know, will it work for us in Nebraska?

12:30 And so we planted probably 20 different things in all these monoculture strips and then we had two or three different mix combinations and these probably had 10 to 12 things in it. We put those sensors in at one foot, two foot, and three foot levels and we had good rain that summer so everything looked okay. You know, nothing really suffered because we had the rains to make it work but the moisture sensors and we had data loggers so it was.

12:58 Pulling a sensor in every couple of hours and uploading it to the cloud, but the charts told the story. Anything we planted in monoculture, you could just see throughout the season that moisture profile. It was sucking it dry, and it didn't matter if it was soybeans or vetch or turnips. The charts looked very similar. It really dried the soil profile out by the end of that growing season.

13:23 Whereas the mixes, it was stunning to look at. It was just almost a flat line. It's almost like there was nothing growing there. We had moisture sensors in bare wheat stubble, stripper straw, so it was pretty tall stubble, and it lost just about as much moisture as that diverse cover crop mix used. When we saw that and we knew what you had done and we had heard what Adamir had seen or what he had said, we just said this is real, this can work. Because our fear was we don't want to promote something that's going to take that moisture out of wheat stubble and the farmers are going to take a penalty on their corn. Because that's the whole reason we grew wheat is to add that 30, 40 bushels of corn the next year, and we didn't want to jeopardize that. But once we saw that, it's like okay, we can sell this stuff, we can do this.

14:17 We started Green Cover immediately thereafter. So much of it, because of what we saw early on, we've been focused ultra focused on diversity from the very beginning. And because, like you said, once you see that and then you go, oh yeah, well that's the way God created things. And that's the whole premise of understanding ag as well.

14:41 Talk a little bit about how you guys formed Understanding Ag and how that concept of diversity plays such a big role in everything you guys do. So as you're aware, Keith, and I'm sure many listeners are, Ray Archuleta, myself, David Brandt, very close friends, we all went down this path together. And David Ray always asked David and I, well, what's missing? Why aren't more farmers doing this? And for David and I, it was rather simple. It was about education. Farmers and ranchers aren't going to implement what they do not know. They need the understanding. So we decided that whenever Ray retired from NRCS, we'd start a company that focused on education.

15:27 Ray and David, myself, along with Dr. Ellen Williams formed Understanding Ag. It's going on eight years ago now. Time flies. I would have never dreamt that we started from humble beginnings, and this past year we passed 36 million acres we're actively consulting on. Yeah, I had no idea I'd be spending the time I do away from home, but it's a good thing.

16:00 Because as you said it earlier quoting Adamir, this can happen anywhere and soil is simply sand silt and clay held together by biotic glues and the difference is what I like to call stewardship. You know I can take you on side-by-side farm comparisons and you've seen it, the difference that stewardship makes. And part of that stewardship is adding the diversity back in it. It's just changing because we're cycling more solar energy, we're pumping more carbon through root exudates into the soil feeding more biology and it's just this compounding positive effect that really has a positive effect not only on the environment but on the pocketbooks of those who really understand how to work with nature instead of against.

16:52 Yeah and you know, we've seen from some of our customers, whether it be a corn farmer in Indiana or a carrot grower in California, when they grow these big diverse cover crop mixes and they pull a sample and they send that in for a test, you know there's literally $1,000 worth of nutrients in that biomass that they're actively making available, they're actively cycling. And it's just, you know, people go well where did that come from? And you know the answer is well, the nitrogen came from the atmosphere and you're standing on everything else you're standing on, you know, four oxides and minerals.

17:32 That's right. One of the first things we do when we go out on a new client's property, we do a soil test. We do a total nutrient digestion test which shows them the amount of nutrients that are in the top 12 inches of their soil profile. And we've tested, now of course not every acre, but across these 36 million acres we have thousands of TND tests. We have never ever tested a single farmer or ranch that doesn't have enough nutrients for profitable crop production. So that's our way of showing that client, hey, there's plenty of nutrients available. You really don't need to add the nutrients. What you're lacking is the biology to make those nutrients available and cycled.

18:24 Yeah, and that's where diversity comes in. Yeah, and I'll add they not only have nutrients to grow this year's crop and next year's crop but for most people probably for the next several thousand years. I mean it's because you're measuring the top foot but you know we know those roots are going to go down, you know, two, three, four feet in many soils. So yeah, because some guys say well I don't want to mine my soil, you know, and it's like well you're not really mining.

19:01 So not at all. Yeah, so yeah, that that's a great test and it really opens people's eyes to that. And you know, one of the things, you know, back in 2008 when we did.

19:11 Our experiments and we started, we saw the power of the diversity of the plant, but we did not understand that that was only part of the equation. We could see that we couldn't see where the magic was really happening, and that was in that rhizosphere, you know, with all the biology and the diversity of the plants were leading to the diversity of the biology, and we had we just had no understanding of that at that time. And I still feel like we have, you know, very little understanding. But the ability, we've grown a lot in our understanding of how to build a soil aggregate and the importance of microbial fungi and those biotic glues from that diverse biology. And with many others said, you know, I don't want to misname—Joe Clapperton, Christine Jones, you know, Dr. Chris Nichols, etc.—we helped to understand, to be taught some of that, and we're beginning to understand it now.

20:12 To meet the next frontier that we're really going down the path is what is this doing to the phytochemical compounds in what we're producing? And this to me is one of the most exciting things. What we're finding as we increase diversity, we're going to increase the diversity of microbiology in the soil, and that is directly responsible for bringing these phytonutrient compounds to the plant and making them available so that we can grow fruits, vegetables, grains, pastured proteins that are truly more diverse in these phytochemical compounds. And that's what drives our gut microbiome. So we can directly relate that then to the soil health, plant health, animal health, human health connection. I think that's the next frontier, and it all relates back to diversity.

21:18 To that end, you know, because you guys weren't busy enough, you launched another venture called Regeni, and that's really taking off. We had Christine Root, who is your chief marketing officer, she came to Regenerative Nexus Scottsdale, she'll be coming to our one in Omaha. And I love this, the consumer survey that you guys did, and she does a great job presenting that information, because what that shows is not only is it catching on with farmers, but the consumers are starting to get it. Do you want to talk just a little bit about, you know, because you're doing a lot of interaction with consumers and consumer product groups these days, what are you seeing and hearing out there in the industry and on the streets? And you know this as well as I do, Keith—the word regenerative has been around a long time, you know, Rodale talked about it decades ago, but it really never caught hold until all this happened in the regenerative space with these cover crops, and that, and now I mean, and here I

25:50 Well that's great, don't pay me for that. Pay me for the product because it's better. Yep, and that's what you guys are doing, and it's win-win. You know, realize as we go down the regenerative path, as has been proven, we're able to lower our cost of production because of the natural nutrient cycle, soil creep resiliency, water holding capacity. We go on and on. So it's a win for the farmers from that standpoint. Then we're seeing the consumers want to source these products for a variety of different reasons—maybe for the carbon aspect, maybe for water, maybe they want to help revitalize their local community. A whole host, too, but above all else, the nutrient density and the quality of the food is really driving. So now what we have is all of these brands who are saying, hey, we want to take advantage of—you know, our surveys show that our customers are looking for it, we better go down this path. So now we have entire brands that are looking to source regeneratively grown and raised products. So now you've completed the entire supply chain, and that's a win-win-win all the way through.

27:13 And that's where you've been spending a lot of your time, right, is working with some of these big brands and traveling to the big cities. You know, farmer boy goes to the big town. How has that been? Well, Alan Williams and I were just talking about this since we've started the understanding. Neither of us have spent less than 275 days a year on the road. And last year I was 282 days on the road, 242 flights. So I got a few frequent flyer miles. And I told people I thought I was retired, now I'm just tired. But it's all good, it's all good. I would have never thought that I'd be standing in front of CEOs, board of directors, heads of sustainability. In August, King Charles invited me over. I got to spend some time with him, going back next week as a matter of fact to meet with the members of his staff. And I would have never thought, you know, back at that no-till on the plan, back when we heard about it, what it would lead to. But it's very rewarding in seeing that we're making a difference, and what the future is near and dear to me is in the lives of farmers, ranchers, and their families. So we can continue—we talk about regeneration. We need to continue these operations to the next generation and beyond because we need to be regenerative.

28:54 Also for sure. And you know what a blessing you're able to do this because your son Paul is taking over the ranch and he's continuing that legacy and continuing to build the health of the.

29:06 Operation and the livestock and you know Brian and I we've got kids involved and yeah what a blessing it really gives you extra incentive to work and to leave that legacy for not only the kids but the grandkids and it makes a difference for sure.

29:25 I have my stump speech when I go visit with the CEOs and board of directors and I said name an issue faced by society today and to at least some degree regenerative ag can help to address that issue at least to some degree. Clean air, clean water, nutrient density, food revitalizing rural communities, farm profitability, resiliency of supply chains. You know I can go into about any board meeting or any meeting now and I'll start asking them questions and let them tell me their pain point and no matter what I'm going to spin it to regenerative agriculture and the beauty of it is it can solve a lot of these issues.

30:16 Well and name an issue out there right now as you look at our culture and you look at how divided we are as a nation but name an issue where every single person, every single group can come to the table and come away with a win. Now maybe not the big agrochemical companies but they're still room for them to play. I mean they're all getting involved in biologicals and other things too, which that's probably a whole other conversation but everybody, you know the consumer, the environment, the companies, the farmers and especially the consumers come away with a win.

30:58 And it will be very interesting. You know Bobby Kennedy, just the fact that he's being considered and his huge push. I mean you know I've heard many of the same statistics that you say about the chronic health crisis we have in this country. You know he's just a he gives a master class in that every time he talks. We have to do something and he knows that this is part of the solution. And he's a very good advocate for regen. Yeah so it's exciting, very exciting to think about it.

31:31 You know it's maybe a little bit nerve-wracking because the unknown is always a little scary but you know for those of us that have been down this path it's just been one unknown after another. And Gabe, you know one of the things I really appreciate about you is that even though you know you've stood in front literally have stood in front of kings and you know board leaders and billionaires and all these people you're still the same old Gabe. Still, but that's what makes it powerful and genuine and sincere and I see that all across this movement, you know the people who are pushing this agenda who are doing the.

32:09 Education so sincere, and I tell people all the time you will never find a group of people more willing to share their secrets. Here's what I've learned: I wish everybody could do this. You know, I wish all my neighbors would do this. Boy, you don't see that anywhere else. It's like, 'Yeah, I'm successful, but I don't want anybody to know how I'm doing it.' The conventional production model—I'll never forget, you know, I served on many boards over the years, and you'd hear people, 'Oh, I've got my secret, I've got my secret.' In regenerative agriculture, there's no secret.

32:45 I tell people, one of the things that I enjoy most about this space is I can pick up a phone and call people in every state and most foreign countries, and somebody's willing to talk. You know, they're willing to share. And I tell people, Gabe Brown's not very smart, but I know a lot of people, and they're going to come up with the answer, you know? And that's just great to be able to find that help. Because Keith, you know how it was when we started down this path, man. You felt like you were out on an island, but boy, no more. No more. It's a strong movement, and we're learning more every day.

33:25 And to be honest with you, that's what's exciting to me. The more I know, the more I know I don't know, but I want to know, so I keep trying to find out. You know, and yeah, there's new tools being developed. You know, there's some exciting things with some of the DNA sequencing that's helping us take a little peek into what's actually going on so that we can make additional tweaks and changes. And I know you guys are very active in the education space, so yeah, I just appreciate what you and Ry and Dave and Allan did initially there, and you're continuing to drive that forward.

34:05 You know, as we bring this to a close, what would be a piece of advice that you would give to someone who's maybe just starting down this path or starting down this journey? You know, from your years of experience, your hundreds and hundreds of flights, and all that, just what's some good advice for someone starting out? Yeah, find a mentor. In fact, find several of them, and surround yourself with likeminded people. You know, one of the things that I really try not to spend—I just don't spend a lot of time with negatively minded people. They've got to be positive. They have to be lifelong learners, and being a lifelong learner, I think, is critical to success in any business because you need to adapt and change. And we're going to learn more and more in this space, and I think it's going to happen at an ever increasing, ever rapid rate. So be a lifelong learner. And never—one thing that really bothers me is when you can see a field day taking place and

35:17 Pick the topic but you don't get great turnouts sometimes at those things. There's always some excuse, well I tell you what the opportunity to learn never pass that up because it'll return you multiple times over.

35:40 Yeah that's great advice and if you're listening to this and are wondering where you can get started and find a mentor, you guys have two to three day intensive workshops where you really take them through an intense learning experience so they'll not only learn but they'll make friends that will last for many years. Another option is our Regenerative Nexus Summits that we put on that's intentionally designed. It's not in the field, it's in the classroom but it's all farmers sharing their experiences, their successes, their failures and then you get a book that has everybody's name, email, phone number and their bios so we want you to follow up and the people there welcome those calls.

36:28 If you don't have a mentor it's because you haven't looked very hard. That's right, because they're out there and there's lots of great people. Understanding.com is that your website? That's right, or soilhealthacademy.org, either one of those. Yeah that's right, Soil Health Academy is the Academy side of things and then Regenify as well and you can always call Green Cover. We've got all the contact information. We work with lots of Understanding Ag representatives all across the country and we'd be happy to help connect you there as well.

37:04 Well Gabe, thank you so much my friend. It's always great to catch up. Seems like a long time ago but really in the scope of things we're just getting started.

37:15 All I know is I had a lot more hair back then.

37:20 It's been a really good ride Keith and I sure enjoyed being a part of it with you and Brian.

37:30 Well thank you very much and thank you everybody for listening in on the Green Cover podcast. My brother and I started Green Cover in 2009 because we understand what it's like to be a farmer starting out on the journey to improve soil health. We saw the power of plant and biological diversity on our own farm here in Nebraska but we found that it was difficult to get the right cover crop seed mix. We also learned that there was a big learning curve in successfully implementing cover crops. That's why we built Green Cover so that farmers like you can access the highest quality cover crop seed put into the right diverse mixes along with the technical advice and the educational resources to help you successfully implement cover crops on your own operation. So contact us today and we'll help you with the right cover crop mix for your farm or ranch so you can regenerate your portion of God's creation for future generations.